Posts by problemaddict 2

33

what type of faith do you REALLY want?

by atheist_R_stupid in

i find that when talking people who say they "used to be a jehovah's witness" they say words that show they have in fact, never been one.

it's like a man that worked for the post office for 30 years in a main major urban hub like chicago or new york... and you ask him, "in your last position, what was your rdo?

" and the man says "whats an rdo?".

problemaddict 2

If a troll......he/she will probably still read what their handiwork produces. :)

56

Lets pretend jw's disappeared

by atheist_R_stupid in

and joined your ranks.... this means...youre talking about a people, that currently are pushing no sex till marriage.

that would end and join into the messages you currently push regarding youths and sex.

that would be sex, with condoms.

problemaddict 2

Oubliette........I make no claims of spelling prowess.

I will however brothel accept the counsel. If we need to form a comitee I ask it be Simon, Cofty, and yourself. Chaserious can be an alternate.

I repent.

Wait....you people are apostates!? Why didn't anyone tell me so!

33

what type of faith do you REALLY want?

by atheist_R_stupid in

i find that when talking people who say they "used to be a jehovah's witness" they say words that show they have in fact, never been one.

it's like a man that worked for the post office for 30 years in a main major urban hub like chicago or new york... and you ask him, "in your last position, what was your rdo?

" and the man says "whats an rdo?".

Oh my. Spanking the bees nest a bit again are we? There have been multiple others who come on here, throw up a few rude posts calling people stupid etc..., all the while not realizing the irony since they are not exactly winning anyone back to the faith with sarcasm.

I was raised a JW. I was disfellowshipped once when I was a teenager. Messed around with a girl. I was heartbroken. We stopped our relationship and I refused to go to college so I could pioneer. I felt I had some make up to do. I was one of the guys going out in service by themselves to be able to make my time.

I pioneered for a couple years. I stopped to go to trade school. After that i worked. I moved around with a couple friends. One of which went to MTS school. he had a special assignment so I accompanied him as his roomate. As I got older, and some time passed between me and the stain on my record, I was able to receive more "privileges" in the congregation. Eventually I met a pioneer sister and we married. We made it a goal to serve in a foreign country for at least a year, and we did. We saved all we had, left our home and jobs, and were need greaters. By that time I was an MS. In a small remote congregation I was used as an Elder, though I was not one officially.

Fast forward a few years, the brick that toppled for me first was our incredible hubris with the blood doctrine. I worked with it for a while, and tried to stay in for the good. I began learning Koine Greek, a little biblical Hebrew (just the basics mind you), and began to engage in apologetics back when you could find JW's on the internet defending our faith.

In doing so, while I was arguing against the Trinity and other minutia, my conscience was bothering me regarding blood, bloodguilt, and now I was about to have a baby. I allowed myself to research and think differently. I took concerns and thoughts to the elders, who not only could not answer the questions, but treated me harshly. it was then I realized I had been lied to. Not on purpose neccesarily, but I had been lied to.

I stopped wasting my life. I am still figuring out exactly what I thinkadn feel, but I am able to do so free of the negatives associated with "group think" and the obvious contradictions from the leadership. I am sure you see them.

I am happy to report my wife now has recently stopped attending. we do so knowing we will lose almost all of our family, as they have told us very directly they would shun us.....despite there being no sin (at least no more than usual).

Now.......was I as you put it.....a "REAL" JW? The realest.

May I ask to the point of your post bit further? I am genuinely trying to figure out what your premise was.

56

Lets pretend jw's disappeared

by atheist_R_stupid in

and joined your ranks.... this means...youre talking about a people, that currently are pushing no sex till marriage.

that would end and join into the messages you currently push regarding youths and sex.

that would be sex, with condoms.

problemaddict 2

BTTT

.....and Vidiot.......that may be true. can a person be disfellowshipped for conversating on the internet? ARS is doing it, and I am doing nothing different.

I wonder.

18

Watchtower Accused of Intellectual Dishonesty

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

watchtower never learns.. i applaud dr. singh for speaking out and his open letter to watchtower.

http://jwalumni.org/2015/01/17/rama-singh-awake/.

problemaddict 2

ARS and Scholar,

I can't believe scholar is here! When are you taking me up on our blood discussion?

Guys this is very silly. They used his words, but contextually as has already been pointed out, they misrepresented his position. Less than 2% of actual scientists (not ministers who got a degree in biology), think creation explains abiogenesis. So I guess technically 2% is "some" scientists. I wonder if I saw 100 doctors about the mole on my arm, and 2 said it was cool, while 98 called it cancer......if I would just let it be or get it removed. But more importantly.....

Evolution explaining diversity of life IS SOMETHING JW"S BELIEVE!!!

This point cannot be made often enough. In order for the amount of animals on the ark to turn into the amount of species we have today.....you HAVE to have evolution. In fact.....you have to have it at a very high rate!

Call it Micro or macro....I don't care. But evolution is something JW's have to believe in, if they continue to want to believe in the literal account of Noahs ark. Period. End of story.

56

Lets pretend jw's disappeared

by atheist_R_stupid in

and joined your ranks.... this means...youre talking about a people, that currently are pushing no sex till marriage.

that would end and join into the messages you currently push regarding youths and sex.

that would be sex, with condoms.

problemaddict 2

ARS,

Welcome to the board. I was once like you in some ways. Felt that i had airtight arguements to basically make the "the good is more good than the bad is bad" argument. I would get on baords, and engage ex-JW's in banter. I would be the reasonable one, and many of them I fetl were just angry and bitter. Once I stopped going to meetings, and actually listened to peoples stories (as I developed my own), I began to think very differently.

Regarding your post, it is FULL of assumption. Would the USA be better off with 1 million JW's, than with just 1 million regular Joes filtering into whatever section of life they would have lived?

Pointless hypothetical.

I am sure the world would keep spinning, Obama would be president, people would be able to hand out leaflets without issue, we probably would still of had a housing crisis, and a host of other things would be the same.

Would there be some good lost? Specific court cases? A push on the medical establishment forced to come p with alternatives to one religions nonsensical approach to medical care? Maybe. Are some people better off with a moral code and the controlling hand of the religion? Most assuredly.

Would there be bad lost? Would a lot of those million people actually have gone to college or tried to help society and the world in a way more meaningful that handing out Watchtowers? Would thousands have NOT died because of refusing blood behind a doctrine not rooted in scripture and good scholarship? Would free thinking kind people have done something more meaningful with their time and effort then what they are doing now? Maybe.

Its pointless. Nobody here thinks JW's are going away. But many are on here for support of their breaking families, dead loved ones over the blood doctrine, years lost behind following men while thinking they were following God, and loss of friends and support structure simply for no longer believing the way they once did when they were younger. Some even suffer communal shunning from those whom they have loved.

I'm fortunate to not have been disfellowshipped. In fact, I haven't done anything to be DF'd for. Yet that does not stop rumors, hurtful gossip, and even some friends and family from shunning.

What a shame.

Anyways, I would love to talk to you about some of your points if you are open for a civil discussion. Not so much a debate, but just an interchange of ideas. I welcome your viewpoint (not many active JW's that AREN'T looking for support to leave on here now-a-days), and hope you will actually speak. feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Take care.

53

Need to vent: Wife just went in full cult mode, huge fight. she is so brainwashed

by goingthruthemotions in

jw
friends

out of the blue my wife started to ask me about my feeling about the borg.

i told her i didn't want to talk about it...she persisted.

she already knows how i feel, i told her that my biggest beef is that they use mind control, and yep she went in to how i was an apostate and how she doesn't want to be married to an apostate.

problemaddict 2

GTTM,

My heart breaks for your situation. I thought at one time the same way. My wife and I were the inner circle. Served in foreign countries.....going for the brass ring and all that.

When my doubt came out (it took a while to mature), I like so many others, couldn't keep my mouth shut and develop a plan. So it strained my marriage. I remember my wife hitting me with her fists while I drove. So unlike her. Her world had shattered behind my revelations that I couldn't do it anymore.

When I REALLY began to empathize with what that meant for her, what she was going through, and how i MYSELF would have felt at one time had the tables been turned.....I instinctive began to speak to her differently. With more compassion, tenderness, and avoiding language that woul raise the hairs on her neck.

Instead I would use comments like, I can't go against my conscience and teach somethign the society os ok with, but i do not feel had Gods support. Something like that. Its like using their own language against them. I meant it when I said it. It was a nice way of saying I think they are wrong and I will have nothing to do with it, without having to cause a defensive reaction. In other words......it was more about ME, and MY searching. She wouldn't ask me to do something my conscience would accuse me with......would she?

It took time, but she is also out now. Pioneer for 16 years (since she was 13). Entire family in. Both sides. If she can leave.....anyone can.

But here is the kicker. We really love each other. We do. We have a great marriage, and now we have young children. Its not always roses, but push comes to shove, we love one another.

So just some thoughts. No matter what, i hope it goes well. Take care of your kids, and insulate them from this. be the REASONABLE one. Don't let her call you an apostate. Tell her its childish. She wouldn't appreciate you calling her a bitch i suppose. Resorting to name calling won't help.

68

What I Saw & Heard in the Oral Argument Hearing on January 14, 2015

by ABibleStudent in

im not an attorney and i could not record the hearing, so please forgive me if i make mistakes in relating what i remember of the oral argument hearing for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society on january 14, 2015 and the length of this post.. i arrived at the civic center/union plaza in san francisco, ca about 7:30. the area is very nice with a few homeless people sleeping in the park across from the courthouse.

it took me about 10 minutes to find the clerks office for the court on the first floor, which opened at 8:00.. once the clerks office opened, the two clerks who i talked with were very polite and helpful.

the arguments for jane doe (i.e., candace conti) versus the watchtower bible & tract society were scheduled 5th out of (i think) 8. while i was in the office a cameraman and another person for nbc arrived asking about the hearing for candace contis case.. the courtroom for the 1st appellate court is on the 4th floor and takes up most of that floor.

problemaddict 2

Couple things.

McCabe is a local JW elder in San Diego, and obviously a practicing lawyer. There is however a newer tendency for the branch to seek outside help in legal matters. If we would listen to the latest JW broadcast with Anthony Morris, you would think its because they don't want to put people in harms way.

Well.....its also because years of telling people not to go to college has caught up with them.

Jon Williams is a local, and has been all over southern california. He is well known in San Diego. He is most certainly not a JW.

Isn't the contrast in appearance and demeanor between the two telling to those of us who have been inside?

Jon Williams will probably cause some damage. Most other cases in CA have also been farmed out to an outside firm, but not the Beaudrou-Williams firm. A larger more national firm.

52

Why I like Jehovah's Witnesses

by undercover witness in

i keep reading that jehovah's witnesses are in effect monsters.

i keep reading that they kinda leave chaos and distrust in their wake.

so i simply wondered if anyone had anything nice to say about them?.

problemaddict 2

Good thing you aren't a JW If you were, and you decided to light up a smoke, you would be disfellowshipped, and communally shunned fromeveryone you ever knew and loved under threat of them being shunned themselves.

You know......just like Jesus would have done right?

23

3rd Gen DF'd finally writing

by AFreeBeliever in

i've been reading many of the postings on this forum for a couplefew years, finally joined today.

i think reading cappytan, and others like that, compelled me to share, it seems i might have a bit of a different outcome than many i have read, perhaps it will be hopeful/helpful to someone.. i was a born-in, 3rd gen jw, my entire family (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and most all of my childhood friends) were in.

some dropped by the wayside as the years went on, but many stayed in, and if they didn't, they still acted/talked as if they believed it was "the truth" and it was their weaknesses/failings that made them stop attending.

problemaddict 2

Let me be the 4th. Welcome!

I think if you have found what makes you happy, nothing else really matters. While I am not much of a believer now a days, I recognize the value of faith on some level, and wouldn't be ready to call myself an athiest.....although I lean that way.

But your mind being set free, and adapting to a new way of life while loosing so much (as we all have), is something to be celebrated and acknowledged.

So welcome. Stay a while. Debate Cofty later. Whatever you feel like. :)